When You THINK You Know Someone….. Sandra James visits Fraud Busting. She’s the CEO of Private Eyes Background Checks and also a private investigator. We’ll hear all about the consequences of not getting the right kind of background check when hiring…and the different choices you have to make sure you get all the info you need. And you’ll find out what happens when she’s asked to follow someone in domestic adultery cases. Prepare to be fascinated.
Traci Brown: Sandra, thank you so much for coming on Fraud Busting! It’s an honor to have you!
Sandra James: Well thank you so much for inviting me. I’m so excited to be here.
Traci Brown: Oh yeah. So, we meet through a mutual friend from a networking group that I’m in, and she just raved about you. We got to chatting and I was like, oh my gosh your super cool, and what you do is really interesting. I don’t want to steal your thunder. Why don’t you tell us what you do and, yeah, just start there and well go from there.
Sandra James: Okay. Great. Well, I’m Sandra James and I’m the CEO of Private Eyes. At Private Eyes our core value is making a safe workplace possible, and we do that by providing high quality background checks to our customers fast across the nation. We’re open from 5 am to 5pm Pacific Standard Time. We’re passionate about verifying people credentials, to make sure they are who they say they are to all of our clients, and it just makes for a better work environment. It doesn’t matter if you have 5 employees or 100,000 employees, we all need to know who were hiring.
Traci Brown Okay. I am so curious about this, and I just have like so many questions. You’re a private investigator, like a licensed private investigator. I think which is so interesting from a business perspective, because I’m a business owner too, is that a lot of PI`s there are kind of like one-man shops and they work out of there kitchen and you’re not, you’re like really the opposite of that. How did you get started in this? How many employees do you have now? Tell us about the breadth of everything that you do.
Sandra James: Oh, well, it’s so interesting. I owned a mortgage credit reporting agency that I started decades ago, and I actually had a friend that called me from a bank and said, “I have a friend who needs your help Sandra, you need to go and help her.” So, I just called her, thinking it was another lender, and I went to meet with her the next day. She was like, “Come tomorrow. I really need to talk to you.” And she was like, I’m placing people at IBM – back then, it was decades ago – and she goes, “And it’s taking me forever to get a background check done.” I wasn’t even doing background checks at the time, but I was in the information business. I was providing credit reports to the lending industry.
Traci Brown: Ah.
Sandra James: I said, well tell me what you need, and so we talked about it. We had a conversation. I went back and did some research and she was my first client for background checks. That was in 1996, so that was a ways ago, and then I ended up selling that company, and then I started Private Eyes 22 years ago. You know when I started Private Eyes 22 years ago, a lot of companies weren’t doing background checks. But the companies that were doing them, were very diligent about the information. I have some customers that are still using us today that were my very first customers, and we’ve just enhanced their programs over the years. So today, I have just under 50 employees. We have multiple locations. We’re in Walnut Creek, California and in Reno, Nevada.
Traci Brown: Oh, wow
Sandra James: As I mentioned earlier, we’re open from 5 am to 5 pm Pacific Standard Time. I’m a licensed private investigator in 3 different states. Being a private investigator is fun. It allows us access to information that sometimes we wouldn’t have access to. When we’re doing a background check for employment purposes, we’re always going to have the authorization of the candidate, and we follow the federal guidelines and the state guidelines for reporting, and everything is very compliant. But with having a private investigator’s license sometimes people reach out to me, and they need help with a special project. They might need us to find someone, sometimes people leave a company and they have 401(k) money, for example, so the company might need to know where those people are so they can return funds to them. There are all different kinds of reasons that people reach out to us, and of course, we have people that might reach out to us that want us to follow someone that’s done worker’s comp issues. Of course, because of our named Private Eyes, we get a lot of domestic people that call us and want us to follow their spouse and things like that. I always say, if you think they need to be followed they probably do.
Traci Brown: (Laughing).
Sandra James: You might want to save your money and have a conversation, but you know sometimes we get asked to do those kinds of things too. Those are kind of more side projects for us you know. We want to have access to information so we can help our clients with any kind of special projects they need, but our core focus is really on employment, pre and post-employment background checks.
Traci Brown: Okay. I’ve just got to ask some questions about you following people or your team following people. What’s the craziest request you’ve had that you went ahead and did? And I’m sure there are some that you said no too.
Sandra James: Yea. There are some that, I mean, I would have to say that some of the domestic ones are . . . I don’t actually do the following. I have a team of people. We have a team of people that do, and they’re fantastic at what they do. When you follow someone, with domestic, the problem with domestic is no one’s really happy, right.
Traci Brown: Right.
Sandra James: It costs a lot to do surveillance, and you find out that you’re right and the person is doing some adultery or something, whatever you think it is that they might be doing, and they are, you’re not really happy with that outcome, right. The reassurance that you were right, because usually it is something negative, right.
Traci Brown: Right.
Sandra James: So, you’re not really happy with it, and if you find out they’re not doing it, then you know, and you’re like, why did I spend all that money?
Traci Brown: Oh!
Sandra James: It’s like, why did I do that? But I would say that probably one was someone that was . . . he was a trucker and he wanted to verify that his girlfriend wasn’t cheating on him and things, and so we followed her. She wasn’t doing anything. He just kept having us follow her. She wasn’t doing anything. But there have been cases where someone was right, that’s never good news, and then the person that hires us, why we don’t
really do a lot is because the person who hires us, you know, it’s emotional.
Traci Brown: Oh yea.
Sandra James: We give them information of where the person is at, if there was someone else, because someone might make a really bad decision. So, we need to be careful so that we’re not giving information to keep everybody safe. We wait a while to give the proof of what we find so that the other person can not be. . . it’s an emotional thing, right, and people make bad decisions.
Traci Brown: Totally.
Sandra James: Right. You don’t want to be responsible for someone making a bad decisions because you told where their spouse was. Right.
Traci Brown: Um-hum. Wow. So, we’re going to get back to background checks, but I’ve got one more question. What’s the percentage of people that think their spouse or their boyfriend/girlfriend/whatever, is cheating? What’s the percentage of them that you find to be correct?
Sandra James: Oh, it’s very high. It is very high.
Traci Brown: Okay.
Sandra James: I can only tell you that there have been a couple of cases where the person wasn’t. All the other cases, they were.
Traci Brown: Oh, wow. You’re like looking at 99% type stuff?
Sandra James: A higher percentage that are, unfortunately, right. That’s what I mean. Usually I tell people when they call and it’s domestic, I tell them, if you think they are, they probably are, so try to have a communication, or make a decision if you can be with that or not. Right. I mean, there are all kinds of crazy couples today. Some people are like, anything goes, and so.
Traci Brown: (Laughing).
Sandra James: If you are not one of those people, right.
Traci Brown: Right.
Sandra James: A funny one, we had a worker’s comp claim where we were following someone. He supposedly couldn’t use his arm and was disabled, permanently disabled or something, and so the first day, my guy’s out there, he watches him throw a big bag of trash into the garbage and has it on video, right.
Traci Brown: Uh-huh.
Sandra James: That you couldn’t use your arm.
Traci Brown: Right. Oh, my goodness.
Sandra James: Or things like that, or somebody is playing basketball, right, things like that. Those are kind of some fun ones in the Workers Comp arena, too.
Traci Brown: Oh, wow. Okay. Let’s get back to background checks. I have a very good friend who has a plumbing company. Actually, she was on our podcast, Susan Frew, and her employee, who she totally trusted, ended up putting them, what, $300,000 or $400,000 in debt. It turns out that this particular employee had done this at two other jobs. She was doing things like charging gas to the company card, because they had all the plumbing trucks, right.
Sandra James: Right.
Traci Brown: And then she would . . . My friend, Susan, she wasn’t sure if she was selling it to other people at the pump, like for a discount, that kind of thing, or selling gas cards on Craigslist. She wasn’t sure, but there were all these things. It turned out to be a really big problem. What is the solution, from your angle? We chatted a little bit about this too. Background checks show what people have been convicted of. A lot of times people have done stuff and the employer just washes their hands and just go away. We are not going to deal.
Sandra James: Right.
Traci Brown: What’s the solution for that?
Sandra James: Well, there are two things. I’m so glad you brought that up because it’s so important. I was at an event once, and I talked to a gentleman that owned a truck stop in the Midwest. Said, did you know I pulled a background check on someone online. I just went online, $29, whatever, in 1999, and pulled a background check. It came back clear. I hired this bookkeeper, and in a few months, I noticed $30,000 was gone. He was like, then you do, someone like you does a background check for me, and it shows that she had a misdemeanor for this in the past. Why didn’t it pull up? Right. So it’s the difference between a database search and somebody who’s actually going and verifying information and confirming it’s your candidate. Right. It’s unfortunate that bookkeepers in today’s market, typical women, are actually embezzling up to $30,000. It’s a misdemeanor in most states, and if an employer only terminates the person and doesn’t report it and take the time to go through pressing charges, then it won’t come up, and they’ll just go get another job and do it again. We’re not really supporting each other if we don’t follow through. I mean, it’s one thing to terminate the person. Of course, you don’t want them on your team, so of course you should do that. But if you don’t take the next step and file a claim against the person, and then follow through and make sure they’re charged with it, then the next person that hires them is going to have the same issue because what is happening is the person will do it again and again once they get away with it.
Traci Brown: Right.
Sandra James: If they lose their job, they have still gotten away with it. Right. Because they haven’t been charged with it. So until you’re charged with it, for background checks, we’re reporting convictions, so you have to follow through, make sure the conviction happens, whether it is a misdemeanor or felony. In some states if it’s up to $10,000 or over $10,000, it’s a felony, so that person should have that on their record so that the next person that does it . . . Now, unfortunately, when you are doing an employment verification, it’s such a litigious society today, people don’t want to give information so they’ll not available for rehire, but that’s a signal, so you need to pay attention to that. If someone says no, they’re not available for rehire, I mean, you probably feel the same way I do, right, is that anyone that did a great job for me and was reliable and dependable and did quality, I would hire back, right.
Traci Brown: Oh, yea. Absolutely.
Sandra James: And probably that person would have given me a 2-week notice or a month notice and left on good terms, and I would bring them back, right. But if someone says, no, they’re not available for rehire, even if they are not saying they stole from the company, or they were unreliable, or they were late all the time, or they didn’t show up for work, or any of that stuff, it’s a signal. A no rehire is a signal, so people need to pay attention to that as well. But it’s not going to come up if you don’t take the time as the employer to have there be a consequence for the actions that your employee took, then you are not helping the next employer because that person will usually continue to do the same behavior.
Traci Brown: Is there a way to find out things they’ve been accused of, but not convicted of?
Sandra James: On a check for employment purposes, we can only report convictions.
Traci Brown: Okay.
Sandra James: So you cannot report anything. It has to be a conviction. Anything else, if the case was dismissed, if it was expunged, anything that is not a conviction cannot be reported.
Traci Brown: Okay. But if that information is out there, so when someone comes to you, you have to ask, for what purpose is this? Is that?
Sandra James: Exactly. Exactly. So if someone hired me as a private investigator, then they will have access to information and we can report it, and the person doesn’t typically know that we’re looking. That’s the difference. Right. When you have a private investigator license, you can do things without an authorization. But when we are doing things for an employer for pre-employment or post-employment, we always have the authorization from the candidate. So the candidate or the consumer knows that we are doing the background check. But when someone hires us as a private investigator, they usually do not know that we’re looking, and then we can report everything on a PI report.
Traci Brown: So then could an employer just hire you as a private investigator? Is that . . . ?
Sandra James: Yes, they could. Most of our clients follow the Federal Fair Credit Reporting Guidelines. They all follow all follow the Federal Fair Credit Reporting Guidelines and any state guidelines around background checks for employment purposes. But a client could hire me to do PI work for them as well. That would be a different agreement than the agreement we have for pre and post-employment background checks.
Traci Brown: Wow. Okay. That’s super interesting, that you can go with two levels of checking on people. What kind of fraud cases have you worked on? What kind of fraud have you seen come through?
Sandra James: I was thinking about that this morning, and I would say that probably one of the most interesting cases that we had from a background check perspective is that we had a candidate that applied for a client of ours that had more than one entity, and they applied using a social security number, but they provided us documents for employment, like a W-2 and different things like that, and then they got hired for . . . I don’t know if they were hired . . . It was very short period of time at that company, and then they were terminated. Then they applied at their other company.
Traci Brown: Oh.
Sandra James: They provided a different social security number.
Traci Brown: Oh wow!
Sandra James: But they provided the same documents that we got, so the name was the same, the name was changed a little bit, but the social security was different, but my employer brought it to my attention because they said the documents the candidate provided for the previous employment are the same, and the documents have this social on it. They don’t have this social on it, which was very obvious, right, and then as that unraveled, you know, that person gave us more and more information that was fraudulent. So, that is probably one of the most extreme cases that we’ve had because different documents that the candidate gave us had the different socials on it. But she mixed them up on the two files. But we were looking at the file that we did first for her, because my employer was like, that name sounds familiar and then she went and found it and brought it to me. So, we were able to address it with our client and let them know so that they were not going to have a problem because it was the same person that was only on board, it was such a short term, right. It may have been a week or two weeks, so if it did not work out the first time, they did not want to go there again, but the biggest key is that the candidate was falsifying information.
Traci Brown: Oh, yea.
Sandra James: A discrepancy on your background check can cause you to lose the offer your lose your position. An employer can terminate you at any time that they find out that the information is falsified or there is a discrepancy on it. If you have a discrepancy for dates of employment, or for the degree, if you say you have a degree . . . Like I actually went to someone’s graduation once to be a nurse, and then after the graduation we were having dinner, and I’m like, where are you going to go to work? She’s like, oh, I can’t go to work yet. I’m not done with my degree. I was like, what do you mean? I just watched you walk in graduation?
Traci Brown: Yea, yea, yea.
Sandra James: We’re celebrating her graduation, and so she needed to go back and finish one credit or one class. But a lot of times people don’t go back and finish, but then they say have a Bachelor’s or they say they’re licensed or whatnot. If you say you have it, and you didn’t finish it, we’re going to verify that you don’t have it, and you’re going to lose out on the job opportunity.
Traci Brown: Oh, yea.
Sandra James: It’s a discrepancy. In our world, we call it falsification, but a softer way to say it is it’s a discrepancy.
Traci Brown: A softer way.
Sandra James: The falsifying. But really the employer is going to look at it like it’s falsifying. If there is anything on the resume that doesn’t match what you put on the background check, it could be dates of employment, what’s really common today is dates of employment. Someone may have worked for a staffing agency, and yet, they put that they worked for Google.
Traci Brown: Oh!
Sandra James: But then when we contact Google, they don’t have any record of the person. If we call the candidate and ask him, so typically your background screening company is going to just report that you never worked at Google and it looks like a discrepancy, well, what you can do as the consumer or the candidate is you can contact the background screening company and you can say, I worked for XYZ Staffing Company at Google, so I was at Google, but my paycheck came from this company. Candidate need to know. You need to be really specific and put the right information so that we verify it and so your background check doesn’t come back with anything that is inaccurate. Right.
Traci Brown: Oh, wow. Now, how long does it take to do a check? If you are calling everything that people list, I mean, that takes a while. I know you all have a quick turnaround, like quicker than most.
Sandra James: Right, right.
Traci Brown: How long does it really take?
Sandra James: You know, 90% of the time we complete the reports in 24 to 48 hours. If there is going to be any delay . . . So obviously last year, we had this unique year of COVID.
Traci Brown: Yea.
Sandra James: It was a pandemic. None of us had dealt with it before. Some folks were closed. That’s beyond our control, but we reached our clients and we communicate that. But now things are re-opening. We’re back to 24 to 48 hours 90% of the time, and we’re open from 5 am and 5 pm regardless of where you’re at in the United States, we have people calling on reports during those time zones that you’re at. We have a system and processes in place that allow us to do the fast turnaround time. It does take a lot of talent to be able to do it. I’m fortunate. A lot of my team has been with me for multiple years, so they’re all trained, and they do a great job.
Traci Brown: Now, do you have some proprietary, I guess, ways to look people up? Were we talking about that? What kind of system are you hooked into to?
Sandra James: Oh, you know what, that is a great question. We actually own our own software. So, I say today that we are a technology and marketing company that provides the service of background checks. We have this really easy-to-use technology. It’s easy for the candidate, easy for the client, but we’re connected through technology to some of our vendors as well, so some of the information we are able to get through different databases. Some of the courts we can get information back, but we re-verify every conviction that we find to make sure it’s our candidate before we report that, so we don’t want to have any disputes. We want to make sure the information is really accurate when our client gets it. They can make their hiring decision, and then move on. Right. The technology is super easy to use. It is integrated with a lot of our vendors, and it helps us with the speed and efficiency. We also have internal processes that we’ve developed for following up on things and tracking things by the hour and by the minute as they come into our system.
Traci Brown: Oh, wow.
Sandra James: It’s really about . . . you know, a younger version of myself was all about just growing, growing, growing, and then once we slowed down a little bit to develop our software and to develop all the internal processes, now we just have processes for everything and then our management team makes sure that those processes are being followed, and it just makes in really easy on the team, which has really been the way that we’ve retained our talent. Right. I would say that as a younger version of myself, I had higher turnover, and today, because we have everything documented and everybody’s trained on the process, they are certified FCRA experts through our industry standard, which is PBSA, the Professional Background Screening Association.
Traci Brown: Oh, wow.
Sandra James: We’re accredited through that. It’s made it so much better for the team. The team takes care of the customers, and they make sure everything goes out right. They make my life real easy.
Traci Brown: Ah. Let’s talk about the pandemic and re-opening and re-hiring and things like that. I assume, are you already starting to see an uptick in your business as a result of that, or what do you see coming on?
Sandra James: Yea. You know what, we’re so fortunate. I’m so grateful, and I feel blessed that when we sheltered in place in 2020. In March of 2020 we were able to do it in a day because we had a solid business-continuity plan, and so we were able to do it. Then we found out that we were essential because our clients are food and beverage and transportation companies across the U.S. Even though we were able to shelter in place, because we have our technology, we were able to keep operating and doing business, and our customers said they didn’t see anything different, which was fantastic. Then we started, for our office, everyone, some of my Reno location, they stayed in the office the whole time, a handful of people, but by September probably everyone was back in our Reno office. California, we have most of our team back now. A few people stayed remote. But most people are back in the office. We definitely are seeing an increase in volume and had several hundred more customers ordering in March than we did in January. That can give you an idea. Every month more customers are ordering, which tells me that things are opening up and that they’re hiring. Right. We closed a new client in March of last year. They sheltered in place. They obviously stopped hiring. Then they opened in September. They didn’t start hiring until January. So, they started hiring in January, but now their volume is increasing significantly. They’re ramping up to get back to where they were previously. I see that pretty much across the board, right. I think that the rest of the year we’re going to see a lot. Now what I’m hearing is that it’s hard for them to find candidates. They say all these people are out of work, and I know that there are fits of stimulus and some increase in unemployment and so forth. People need to get back to work. That’s not going to last forever, right.
Traci Brown: Right, right. That’s just the thing. When you’re screening people, what level is it mostly? Because are restaurants doing this for servers and bartenders? Or is it more middle . . . what’s your breakout?
Sandra James: It really depends on the type of business, how big they are, and it’s really about like whoever is running it, right. Bigger food chains are doing a background check, but it’s retail stores. Retail stores have a higher turnover typically, more temp people, right, so they want something that’s quick and easy, that just tells them if someone has a conviction on something, right. They are some industries that are going to look, for this position, they want a quick and easy background check that they’re going to get fast. If they are used to use some database search or something, we don’t recommend that because we find that’s not the best practice, but that’s what some companies want. But most of the companies that use Private Eyes are doing a really comprehensive background check, and if doesn’t matter if they’re a garden center or if they’re a financial institution, they’re hiring people that we’re doing an extensive FDIC search on, so we’re doing employment, education, licenses, all criminal, credit. It can be a very in-depth background check. We have different levels that we can do based on what the customers’ needs are.
Traci Brown: Oh, wow. Can you give us an idea? I’m so curious. How much does a good background check cost?
Sandra James: It depends. You could have a background check that is just criminal records, and it can be somewhere around $40 or $50 to a background check that is $150 or $200.
Traci Brown: Okay.
Sandra James: For a higher level position, an executive for a Fortune 500 company, or for a company that a private equity company is going to acquire, they will want us to do all kinds of social media, civil searches, a more in-depth background check, and that might be $150 or $200. It is a range, depending on the in-depth search we do.
Traci Brown: I mean, that’s nothing. That’s nothing compared to the amount of loss.
Sandra James: If you’re a small business that lost $30,000 because you hired them to do something in accounting and they steal checks or your credit card or any of those kinds of things, that can be detrimental to a small business. If you are a big business, usually you are going to have more checks and balances in accounting, but if someone is going to do that, they can still figure out how to do it. Right.
Traci Brown: Oh, yea. Absolutely.
Sandra James: Yea. There was someone in Colorado that had a branch manager that had a gambling problem. they did a loan from the company and it didn’t come out until they sold the company. Right. They sold it and then it came up on the books. When he went and addressed it, the person was like, you know, I have this problem. That person is going away. Right.
Traci Brown: Yea, yea.
Sandra James: These things happen, so it’s important to have checks and balances, but the best thing you can do in today’s market is know who you’re hiring. Right. If they have the credentials that they state, they have the degree that they state, I mean, if we were going to have surgery, we would want to know that the doctor had the credentials.
Traci Brown: Yea, yea. Totally.
Sandra James: It is important when you are running your business, you need to know who you’re hiring. It doesn’t mean that you’re going to not have any risk by making that decision, but you are going to have less risk. So, it mitigates your risk, whether you’re the owner or the manager, it keeps the business safer if you know who you’re hiring. People are humans, and we don’t know what humans are all going to do in the future, but typically when you look at someone’s past, it’s predictive of what they’ll do in the future.
Traci Brown: Absolutely.
Sandra James: When something catastrophic happens, people have different tipping points, right.
Traci Brown: Yea, some of the things are like, you know, your kid gets sick. Bank tellers, you hear they think they’ll pay back Friday and no one catches it, and they keep going like that. There are things that develop, but yea, past behavior is a very big indicator.
Sandra James: Right.
Traci Brown: Susan, my friend who we talked about with the plumbing company, she ended up turning her business around after the loss. She moved it into her house, and she hired someone else, right, and she noticed that stuff was missing around her house. She set up cameras. This was just the other day.
Sandra James: Really?
Traci Brown: Yea, yea. She set up cameras in her house, and she sent me the video. She’s like, look, I found out where everything is. This employee, the new employee that she really trusted, was stealing stuff, like out of her purse, out of everything, yea. You never really know, but you do want to make an education guess, an educated risk on someone.
Sandra James: I bet you hear all kinds of things, huh?
Traci Brown: Oh yea! That’s why I developed my TV series – I think we talked about it – Truth, Lies, and Coverups, because it’s about all those stories that are just jaw dropping. Like, what? Are you serious? And it’s all hidden in plain sight, right.
Sandra James: Right. Exactly.
Traci Brown: By the time someone gets to me, they’re going to wish they had you to start with.
Sandra James: It’s just a good, it’s just a best practice to do background checks. I remember there have been companies where I went and saw 10 or 15 years ago and they were like, “Oh Sandra, we don’t have any problems. We have 200 employees, never had a problem.” And I said, “Well, I’ll still be here, and you can call me.” A year or two went by and she called me, and she said, “You know what, Sandra, you were right, and now I need you.”
Traci Brown: Oh yea. They say small companies, just across the board, fraud loss, 5% at least on companies, and that’s small in a good month. I mean, it happens, from stealing paperclips on up to buying yourself a new mansion, you know.
Sandra James: You know, you speak of cameras. I have a friend had staffed some people at a Fortune 500 company, and she had to terminate someone because they had her on camera taking pens from the company, something small like pens, but they had her on camera that she took the pens and they were company pens, and you know, you have to terminate her. That was something small, but can you imagine things that are bigger? Right. Laptops, computers.
Traci Brown: Oh yea.
Sandra James: Mobile devices today that the company provided. Can you imagine if someone has a thousand people using mobile devices and they don’t return them to work or they take other stuff? I mean it happens.
Traci Brown: Totally.
Sandra James: Right.
Traci Brown: Well, yea. It’s funny because little things, like the other day I ran out of paperclips, and I haven’t worked for anybody in more than 20 years, and I’m like, this is the kind of stuff you’re supposed to get from the office. (Laughing). I’m like, how can I really buy paperclips? But that’s what I went out and did.
Sandra James: I needed a paperclip the other day too and I was like, there was nothing. I couldn’t find one. I was like, goodness, because we don’t use paper in our office anymore. Everything is just stored electronically. Over a decade ago we had huge filing cabinets, and we had all the reports stored. We used to print them and then sent them electronically, but we still printed them, audit them, all that. Now it’s all done electronically. Everyone’s using dual screens but me.
Traci Brown: I know. I know. I like my paper.
Sandra James: They’re reading stuff on screens, and I’m like, guys, I don’t have a dual screen so I can’t see what you’re doing. They’re like, that’s not for you.
Traci Brown: Oh, too good. Alright. Okay. Sandra, how can people got a hold of you? Tell us all about that.
Sandra James: Oh, you can go to my website. PrivateEyesBackgroundChecks.com. Or you can email me, Sandra@PEBackgroundChecks.com or you can call me at (925) 927-3333.
Traci Brown: Perfect. It’s worth doing. It’s cheaper than a big loss. Thank you so much! You’ve been fantastic today!
Sandra James: Well, thank you so much! I appreciate you having me. This was super fun. Have a great day!
Traci Brown: Alright.