Top Body Language Experts Tonya Reiman and Traci Brown chat about what it really takes to be a body language expert on TV, how they got to where they are and a few things to look for so you can make an accurate body language analysis of someone for yourself.
Traci Brown: Tonya, welcome to Fraud Busting. Thank you so much for coming on. It’s really an honor to have you here.
Tonya Reiman: Thank you. I really appreciate the fact that you’ve invited me.
Traci Brown: Oh yea. I think we have so much to talk about. Tonya is a body language expert, top notch, top of her game. I have read all your books. I have watched you on TV forever, and I’ve learned a lot from you. Now, we’ve ended up on some of the same TV shows and interviews with some of the same reporters and in the same articles and things like that, which for me is a huge honor. It’s probably somewhat less of an honor for you.
Tonya Reiman: It’s been amazing. Every time I’m in an article, I always love to see who am I with and then I get excited if I see that you’ve been part of it, because it has a dramatic impact when we’re both in the same article and we’re both pretty much agreeing on everything we say. Then I look and I’m like, this is a woman who triumphed in life and look at this now.
Traci Brown: Triumphed. No one has ever told me that about myself, so thank you. Triumphed in life. (Laughing).
Tonya Reiman: Your background.
Traci Brown: I’ve had a myriad of experiences, let’s put it that way. We’re just going to talk body language today without doing any video analysis because I think there are a lot of questions that people have about what we do. I think that they see where are now and go, oh, wow, that looks easy.
Tonya Reiman: Yea.
Traci Brown: Yet, you and me both know that, at least for me, it’s been a lot of clawing and scratching and figuring it out to get myself to a level where finally pay attention a little bit.
Tonya Reiman: Yea.
Traci Brown: You’re on . . . you do a lot of national TV, like FOX and a lot of those stations. Let’s talk a little bit about your journey to get to where you are now.
Tonya Reiman: Ironically, my journey is simplistic. When I started my business, I was doing hypnosis. I had given birth twice and I wanted to have a natural birth. My first birth was natural, and it was crazy. Then, I wanted this one to be the perfect birth, so I started doing a lot of hypnosis classes. Then I wound up doing just pure self-hypnosis. This was my third child. I knew what childbirth was like.
Traci Brown: Yea, yea.
Tonya Reiman: When I went into labor, I kept saying to my husband, I really think I’m in labor. He’s like, you’re definitely in labor. We go to the hospital and the nurse is like, how are you not flipping out? I wound up getting fully dilated, ready to push, got to the point where I literally birthed my own son. I leaned out, pulled him out, and brought him up to my chest, one of the most magical experiences of my life. Having said that, that was like the first insight as to the power of your mind over your body, what happens, how we can affect others with certain things and how we can affect ourselves. So, I decided to just give up my business and I went back to school for hypnosis. I already had a psychology degree, so I decided to get certified in hypnosis. Then I did regular hypnosis. I did hypnosis for pregnancy. I just went full force into it. One of the things I found constantly was that people were coming to me for self-esteem issues, confidence. They never felt good enough about themselves. Being that I have this background in psychology, I knew a lot about the whole NLP, the neurolinguistic programming, if it was debunked, if it wasn’t, what parts seemed to work, what parts didn’t pan out. I started to bring that into my hypnosis practice.
Traci Brown: I love NLP. Oh, I love it.
Tonya Reiman: I do too.
Traci Brown: Yea. Some of it is fantastic, and other parts, I’m like, this is so hokey.
Tonya Reiman: It’s embarrassing to even talk about some of it. I’m like, I’m not going to do this. But some of it really does have merit. I started using a lot of that in my hypnosis practice and using deep anger and things along those lines. What wound up happening was a journalist found me, and they’re like, this practice is amazing. What are you doing that’s different from other practices? So, I started introducing the concept of I’m teaching people self-awareness. I’m teaching them if they stand up a little bit differently, if they walk a little bit stronger, if they feel a little fiercer, then they’re going to be perceived in that same way. Over time, that became a very big thing for me. My practice blew up just because suddenly all of these people wanted to feel better about themselves. I was doing the lose weight, but people were primarily coming to me just because they wanted to improve their nonverbals. From there, of course, you get into, not just the way we hold our bodies, but hey, I’m really excited, so we moved towards pitch and rate. That started to be, on its own, it just became its own animal. I was written up in a few newspapers and it became its own animal and suddenly people weren’t necessarily interested in the hypnosis aspect so much as they were about the nonverbals. TV got caught on it. The first time I was introduced to television was with Bill O’Reilly.
Traci Brown: Oh yea.
Tonya Reiman: I turned it down twice.
Traci Brown: You did! Really!
Tonya Reiman: I didn’t want to go near that man. You watch him. He’s a little bit intimidating. I’m like, no. Because if he yells at me, I’ll walk off the show. It’s just not my thing. We were in Manhattan one day for my daughter’s 5th grade play, when she was much younger, and they called me. I was in a blue velour sweat suit. They were like, come on, just come in. We promise he’s going to be nice. I went in my blue velour sweat suit, which was funny, but they gave me a new top and they said, okay, just make sure that you don’t get her from the legs down because she has on sneakers and velour sweatpants. It was really great. My daughter got to be come in with me. She came into the studio. We didn’t miss her play. The limo came and picked us up, after it brought up back. It was really great.
Traci Brown: Oh, wow.
Tonya Reiman: She got like a glimpse of TV life during her 5th grade period, and I did too. It was kind of like a rude awakening for me. I was very surprised, amazed, I think, and overwhelmed at the idea of being on television. But at the same time, once you’re sitting in that chair, you know this, I’m sure.
Traci Brown: Yea.
Tonya Reiman: You don’t necessarily feel that anxiety. You’re more just, talk.
Traci Brown: You just know what you’re doing. It’s just more lights. That’s the only thing.
Tonya Reiman: Yea. The only problem with me is I have a tendency, as you can tell by this conversation, to talk a lot. This was one of the funniest things. I mean, after I did the show the first time, they really did love me, although they panned down to my pants which was very funny, so you see me wearing this nice blouse and then they panned out to my velour, my light blue velour sweatpants.
Traci Brown: Oh, sexy. Those are good.
Tonya Reiman: Yea. Especially with that tight red sweater they had me in.
Traci Brown: (Laughing).
Tonya Reiman: I’m like, I don’t think I’m going to fit into those sizes. They’re like, that’s the point.
Traci Brown: Oh! (Laughing). That’s the point.
Tonya Reiman: That’s the point.
Traci Brown: (Laughing).
Tonya Reiman: There were really great times. They wanted me to come on weekly. I was like, I don’t want to overstep. God, I look back at this. I don’t want to oversaturate the field. I’m like, I’m not quite sure we should be doing this weekly. They’re like, no, we’re pretty sure. It did. It became a weekly thing.
Traci Brown: It was for years.
Tonya Reiman: Oh yea, this was a decade. It was a decade.
Traci Brown: Now, tell me about this. I’ve got to tell you how I ended up on TV because it was kind of different than yours. I guess everybody’s path is different, but I did not even know body language was on TV. I did not know anyone was interested in it. Then we had the Aurora shooter out here at the movie theater, and he went to his – I don’t know – some kind of court hearing, and he was acting all crazy. I was sitting at home going, oh my gosh, look what he’s doing, totally had a handle on it, and then my phone started ringing. They said, hey, can you come down to the station? I was like, sure! Why not? That’s kind of how it went. Then there was a murder two weeks later and they called me down, and they just kept calling me down. But I haven’t yet done a big national show. What they’ll do is syndicate, share it among their stations, but I’m still waiting on that opportunity. Every time I see you on TV, I’m like, damnit, she’s so lucky!
Tonya Reiman: How did you get into it though? What was your journey?
Traci Brown: It was a lot longer. It was pointed out to me that it was a lot longer of a journey than I thought because, like you, I am a hypnotist, an NLP practitioner, and a master practitioner, and all that stuff. I studied Hawaiian Huna with a shaman in Hawaii. It’s about tuning into people’s energy and reading them and that kind of thing, but before that, I was a professional bike racer and I learned how to read body language and know what people were going to do next, like before they knew they were going to do it. I actually had a journal that I kept of everyone in the country, and I knew what their little tells were. I’ve got notes on even – because I would jump in the men’s race and race sometimes – I’ve got notes on Lance Armstrong and everybody.
Tonya Reiman: Wow!
Traci Brown: Yea, from all those years ago. So, I got really good at that because bike racing is for little people. It’s really a strength to weight ratio thing, so if you’re big, and I’m big because I’m 5’9” and so I could rely just on my strength. I had to really read my competition, and then, kind of like you, I got into hypnosis and NLP, not for childbirth, but for sports performance, and then I started seeing clients, and I really honed my skills that way. You know this, because it is amazing how many people come into therapy and why, because it’s a lot of them, but you’ve got to read where they are, especially hypnosis, like how deep are they, do they need to come up a little bit to get what you need to . . .
Tonya Reiman: Are they snoring.
Traci Brown: Snore, yea. Anyway, then I decided, I was like, I think . . . again, in all this, I didn’t really know how heavily I was leaning on body language and the nonverbals. Then I decided I was going to speak more and really focus on that. That was the fall – no – late summer of 2008. Everybody knows what happened then was the big recession and all these conferences cancelled. Everything I had booked cancelled. I wasn’t near as good of a speaker as I thought I was anyway, and I was doing sports performance, like bringing the mind of a champion into business kind of stuff, which turns out is just a little bit generic as far as that goes with keynotes and things, and right about then a client of mine called and said, “Hey, you know this body language stuff. I know you know it. I need a program. Come in.” I said, “What are you doing now?” He said, “I’m the new executive director of the Colorado Defense Lawyer’s Association. Money for focus groups to try out arguments on jurors just dried up. A lawyer has to pick and persuade a jury. I know you know how to do it. I’ll see you in three weeks.” I was like, oh, okay. That’s what I did. Then I would be in meetings, talking to people about speaking to their group, and I’d go, yea, I have this Mind of a Champion program. It is amazing. Or, I have this Body Language program, and they’d go – Body language! That’s how I niched it and I kept going. Eventually I ended up taking the deception training along with law enforcement and FBI guys and Green Berets and all that. Now, I just focus mostly on lie detection, and it seems to work. You know, financial fraud is all part of life.
Tonya Reiman: You are amazing. I watch you sometimes, and there’s true brilliance when you’re speaking.
Traci Brown: Thanks! I have a good time. I feel it when I’m on stage. Here’s what happened to me, as soon as I started speaking, my personal clients, they just went away. Because it’s like law of attraction or something. I think the business that we’re in is law of attraction, like it reflects on your energy and what comes into you, and yea, you’ve got to do the work. I haven’t seen a personal client in a couple years, I bet, at least. Even when I do it now, it’s just on request. It’s people that know what I do. But what about you? Tell me, what’s a day like for you?
Tonya Reiman: Like today, I had two meetings in the morning. I have a Russian TV interview this afternoon, something with clients legally, which for me that’s a tough thing because what we do is difficult enough, but when you’re talking about taking somebody’s potential life, literally, and helping to either get something working for them or unfortunately sometimes hurting other people, it’s a lot of weight, it’s a lot of responsibility. I’m not thrilled with that piece of what I do, but I pick and choose, which is nice because I can decide if this is the client that I want to work with. If they need trial prep, is there a good reason that they need trial prep? I haven’t tried to work with anybody that I’m not super comfortable with. There is an interview process. I decide if this somebody that I think is – and I’ll use the word – worthy of real help, real assistance. If they’re not, then I’m passing them up. But if they are, like the one I’m working with now, it’s kind of a good feeling to know that there is an outcome that’s going to be positive and part of it will be because I’ve helped. That’s a nice thing. Aside from that, now I’m doing virtual speeches, which I have to tell you, in our industry I do virtual speeches about doing virtual speeches.
Traci Brown: I’ve done some of those, yea.
Tonya Reiman: Yea. Even though I do that, I am a very emotive and gesticular individual, so this is a tough thing for me to get into. Normally, whenever I give a speech, I still stand up. If I’m giving a virtual speech, I’ll stand up behind a big white wall and this way I feel like people can still see my entire body because I’m telling them my nonverbals, this is what power looks like, and they can only see me from here up, then it’s ridiculous to try to give this concept unless you’re the one who can at least fully show what you have going on, like this is truly what strength looks like.
Traci Brown: Oh yea.
Tonya Reiman: Even silly things, like my wall – my white wall rather – is only like nine feet across, so I’m like um-hum, um-hum to show what power walking looks like. This is the era we’re in. A lot of it is people just really wanting to know, how do I do on board meetings or I’m on social meetings all day long, how do I adjust from here up? That’s great, but if you adjust from here up, and not down, then guess what? It’s not genuine and it’s not the best possible. That’s my goal.
Traci Brown: Okay, okay. Let’s get into the nuts and bolts of things. When you go to read people, and let’s just have a little discussion on this, because I think in a lot of the articles we’re quoted in and the TV, they’re worried about one little movement. What does this mean? That’s tough. In a lot of the media, it’s like tabloid, red carpet kind of stuff. But they want to know, what are they doing? Is their relationship in good shape? Who’s lying here? They want one move, but you can’t really just pin body language on one move, the full meaning. What’s your theory on how you watch people? Do you go head to toe? Do you look for one thing and then expand? Tell me how do you do that?
Tonya Reiman: I have an entire . . . I literally have a form that I fill out each and every time I do any kind of an analysis.
Traci Brown: Oh really?
Tonya Reiman: Yea. It goes from head to toe, but it also goes contextually, it goes surroundings. Where is the person? What’s the situation going on at the moment? What are they wearing? What are other people wearing? I do every single part that I possibly can before I look at anything else. If somebody asked me, again, you and I, we’re always asked, like, oh, look at this picture. I always say, it’s a snapshot in time. I can’t make that kind of a judgment call. But if you want to know about the relationship as a whole, then I’ll go back and I’ll look at video footage that I find myself, and I’ll try to see. Is this relationship in a healthy place? Is it not a healthy place? Then go back to a snapshot and say, okay, well, you know this is a generic tell, but based on other nonverbals, this is what I see. I think that benefits the reader because at least you can say, oh, yea, this might mean something, but at the same time, I think I was asked, the way Taylor Swift holds her pocketbook, what does that mean? I’m like, are you kidding?
Traci Brown: Does it freaking matter? (Laughing).
Tonya Reiman: I don’t know. She’s a celebrity, probably has all her money in her pocket, probably has bodyguards three feet away on each side. I’m not really sure what it means. Then you start to look and you realize there are patterns. We always have patterns. You start to look at those little patterns and then from there you can tell a small story. I always say to people, you know, I can tell you potentially what your emoting because your muscles don’t lie, but I can’t – unless you have so much Botox that it’s impossible for me to see, which has been the biggest challenge. I’ll tell you what, it has been one of the biggest . . .
Traci Brown: Botox is crazy. Yea.
Tonya Reiman: Now with the fillers and people are getting these threads, pulling everywhere, left and right, I’m like, now I’m looking, I’m like, wait that muscle used to be here.
Traci Brown: How do you know?
Tonya Reiman: It is good to at least be able to say I can tell you what somebody is experiencing, what emotion they’re experiencing, but I can’t always tell you why they were experiencing that. I don’t know what’s going on in their life at that moment, so you try to look at the surrounding situation and maybe offer a glimmer, but never a constant because you just don’t have a constant.
Traci Brown: And I think you touched on something really important, and that is that the body can’t lie. Words can lie. The body can’t lie. We get so focused on let’s say the words or even one, like if someone crosses their arms, there are 100 different ways people can cross their arms. It tells you what’s on someone’s mind. It doesn’t tell you exactly why. What I always tell people is you’ve got to put together a list of what could potentially be on their mind that would be causing that behavior. Instead of getting like punitive, which I think is what we see in a lot of the political analysis that we do, like people add in opinions to just a fact that we’ll put out. Okay, why did they look sideways during that comment? Why did they suddenly bite their lip?
Tonya Reiman: They suddenly recognize there’s a fly on their head.
Traci Brown: Right on their head. I was talking to my husband. I was like, is that fly stuck to his hairspray because it melted a little from the lights?
Tonya Reiman: How come nobody’s telling him, like the moderator? I would be like . . . anyway, yea. You’re right. I see that as well. I think not only is that a significant portion, like with what we do, I say to people constantly, you know what, you tell me you’re comfortable like this. I’m glad you’re comfortable. When you’re home sitting in front of the couch, you sit like this. But it’s not about how you feel. It’s not about what makes you comfortable. If you’re trying to make that impression that you think is so important that you come to me, then you have to recognize it’s about the perception of the person that you’re talking to. That’s one of my biggest frustrations because I get like pushback. If you see my page, you’ll see that I’m constantly saying, this is a body language analysis. It’s not a political page. If you want to debate politics with me, go on my Twitter, because here I’m stating facts. I’m doing a nonverbal breakdown so that you can see what’s happening with the politician. I don’t want to hear that this one is lying or that this one is doing this or the reason that they turned their head, because you don’t know. If you did, you would be doing what I do. Instead you’re . . .
Traci Brown: Oh, exactly. Oh my gosh. That is so good. Yea. Let’s talk about that a little bit. I’m so curious. If you don’t want to answer, you don’t have to answer. You end up doing a lot of FOX TV, are you generally on the Republican side or on the Democrat side? Where do you? I know you do a lot of nonbiased, but it would seem to me it would be really hard to go on Bill O’Reilly if you weren’t more on the right. Where do you land?
Tonya Reiman: That’s not true. That’s what makes . . . it’s kind of like a two-way street. I’ll tell you what, because I see people just who they are, on the left or on the right, and they’ll go on the show that reflects that. What will happen is they’ll get hundreds and thousands of followers, and then you’ll have me. I’ll be on, whether it’s Bill O’Reilly or I do a lot of CNN as well, so if I’m on Bill O’Reilly everybody calls me a lefty loon. Then when I go onto CNN they call me a righty nutjob. This is how I always say I know I’m walking the line, because if I’m on a left-leaning show and the right people hate me, then I’m okay. If I’m on a right-leaning show and the left people hate me, I know I’m doing my job properly because I’m being honest, and people don’t like honesty. They want to hear . . .
Traci Brown: I know!
Tonya Reiman: Reinforcement of their own beliefs and ideas. I’ll tell you what, when I was strictly a FOX News contributor, I wasn’t allowed to do other shows. I would only do FOX.
Traci Brown: Oh, they had an exclusive deal.
Tonya Reiman: Yea. Contract, everything. What winds up happening at that point is, and you’ll learn this if you haven’t. I’m not sure . . . no, I’m not. I’m being serious. Like whatever shows you’re doing at this moment, you’ll learn how they do tend to pause at the question. The goal then becomes to move around and answer the question without going into explaining. You’ll get a question like, head nodding, like Pence was being honest when he said that, right? Of course, then you have to say, are you referring to this? At that point, let me tell you the cluster that I noticed told me this. So, it’s a matter of taking whatever they’re trying to force on you and then changing it.
Traci Brown: Realizing it. Yea.
Tonya Reiman: The interesting thing was after I left FOX and people started to see, like, okay, there’s no question that she’s being pushed into, there’s no box that she has to stay within, suddenly people were like, oh my goodness, what happened to you? You left FOX and now you’re just one of those quacks. I was once brilliant. Oh, that brilliant Tonya Reiman. Now, those same people are like, she doesn’t know what she’s talking about. You see how the personal perspective comes into play. As long as I’m agreeing or if you are under the impression that I’m agreeing because I’m on your network, well then, I must be brilliant. That is a really hard lesson. It frustrates me because I do see people what I watch and I listen to and I go, dude, you have no idea what you are talking about. That made absolutely no sense. All you did feed to your own group of people who will gobble it up and again think you’re brilliant. I can’t do that. It have to see and then be truthful, and that’s probably why I’m still called a lefty loon and a righty nut, depending on what network I’m appearing on.
Traci Brown: I love that. That is genius, not only to be able to realize it, but be able to pull it off. Let’s talk about this a little bit because me and you and everybody reading body language, we have filters. It’s impossible to turn them off completely. Where is your line between being able to do that and not, and how does it affect your read and what you think your accuracy is? Because clearly you put a conscious effort into neutrality, as I do, in just stating the facts and letting the opinions lie where they do. Do you have a strategy to do that? Is it more natural for you? How does that work?
Tonya Reiman: I think once you’re doing this for a long enough time, it becomes more natural. We take off those rose-colored glasses and I think we’re a little bit more open to the possibility that people aren’t as wonderful as we like to believe they are. Sadly enough, for me, becoming so deeply ingrained in this business has made me a little bit more skeptical. I feel there have been times, I literally, you know it, when they lay the hands – reiki.
Traci Brown: Reiki, yea.
Tonya Reiman: Because from doing all these shows, I said to my husband, all I do all day is pull people apart. My entire life revolves around taking people down and calling them deceptive. It just started to really wear away at me, and I got to the point where that’s when I decided TV is great and I want to keep doing it, no doubt, but really my goal is to help individuals become their best selves, whether than means they need to get a job, whether that means they want to meet someone, or to become more social, become more outwardly social, I just like the idea of building people up instead of constantly breaking them down. I always make the joke, hang out with Tonya tonight. We’re going to break down. I’ll never say, hey, hang out with Tonya tonight as we build up the candidates. The wording itself . . .
Traci Brown: I like that.
Tonya Reiman: My idea is sometimes people do need to be brought down and you do need to be able to say they’re being deceptive. But for a very long time because I was on as often as I was, they would have regular people on and I’m analyzing someone, and I didn’t want to ruin this person or say all these horrible and negative things. At one show, which I almost refused to do, and I got a lot of flack for it, they wanted me to analyze, and I did, Saddam Hussein. I’m like, you want me to read the body language of a man who’s about to become . . . oh yea, he’s happy, he’s cheerful. I can see it in his face.
Traci Brown: (Laughing).
Tonya Reiman: I mean, what do you say to them? There are certain things that are just so negative. So, I did, I started to have this whole negative attitude, and for a while I didn’t want to do any shows. I just shut myself down. I’m like, I’m not doing it. I’m only going to do speaking engagements. I’m only going to go and help people become better at whatever they need to do, not become slimy manipulators, not teach them these tools of the trade that are going to help them sucker punch someone else, just maybe help them with techniques that will make them better people, make them open up a little bit more, make them stronger, help them to not make other people uncomfortable. I think that’s one of the things that I talk about a lot. We have no idea sometimes. We have so little self-awareness that we don’t recognize when we’re really getting into somebody’s space or when people are bored with us or when they just want to be left alone. We don’t recognize it because we’re so worried about us and how we are.
Traci Brown: It’s true. It’s so true. Okay. Here’s the deal, because we had your other computer on. Zoom is putting us on a timer now. Anyway, because we’ve got six and a half minutes.
Tonya Reiman: Oh boy, let’s go.
Traci Brown: I know. When people are watching the debates, because by the time that they listen to this, they’ll be one debate, if we have it, to go. How can people do a little analysis themselves and really find the truth, or are these debates going to move the needle at all? What’s something we can give people to give one little clue about who’s lying and who’s not?
Tonya Reiman: Well, my best thing is something you brought up earlier. Know what an individual’s baseline is. Know what their typical behavior is. I’m watching John McCain one day when he was running. Joe Scarborough was interviewing him. Joe Scarborough was saying something along the line of you know, this one is coming into the race, what do you think? Suddenly McCain’s like, I think everybody should be invited in, libertarians. All I could think of was, oh my goodness, that was horrible. You’re on TV and you’re a potential candidate. That is such a red flag. I say to people, know the baseline, and that’s why usually before I give my analysis, and I think you were going to do this as well, I’m not sure if you actually did it, but maybe that’s something we can do together. It might be fun. But normally before I give, I’ll say, lets get ready to play, we’re playing the debate tonight, I’ll give the baseline of each individual. I’ll give the baseline for Trump, I’ll give the baseline for Biden so people know when they are coming off of baseline. If they know the person fell into autopilot, and now they’re doing what they always do, and you’ll see their true selves, or they are really trying to hold it together. The baseline information is very helpful. Will it change anything? I don’t know. I think for some people which are still undecided, there is a good opportunity that if there is another debate it will make change.
Traci Brown: I agree with that, and let’s make sure we tell everyone, you have a great Twitter and Facebook. You’re really active on there, so people can find you online.
Tonya Reiman: I’ve started YouTube.
Traci Brown: Oh yea. They’ll find you online.
Tonya Reiman: This is going to be on my YouTube, so yea.
Traci Brown: Yea, yea. You’ve written some books too. There’s more than I can really count, but what’s your favorite one?
Tonya Reiman: You know what, my favorite one is the first one because it’s an easy read. I call it an airplane book. You know you get on the plane. There are a lot of pictures in it. It’s simplistic reading. My second book is a little bit, The Yes Factor, is a little bit more academic. It goes way deeper into the science behind what I do because what I found, and Traci, you might have found this yourself, I don’t want people saying, oh, Tonya Reiman’s opinions. No, Tonya Reiman does not give her opinion. Tonya Reiman is telling you these things based on all of this scientific research that we do. That’s why when you look at the back of a book you find where they got that scientific research from. I think that’s an important component too, having people recognize, Traci’s not just giving me her opinion. Traci has studied this. Even if it’s a guttural instinct at certain points, which I think for a lot of us, it is, and then we go back and find out what made us have that gut instinct, right.
Traci Brown: Oh, yea.
Tonya Reiman: That’s why slow motion in so important. But at the same time, when you have that, you need people to understand that it’s not Traci’s opinion, it’s not Tonya’s opinion, this is based on pure science.
Traci Brown: Right, exactly. Ooh, I love it, I love it. Tonya, you are just a wealth of information. Everybody, make sure you follow her on social media. Read her books. We just decided we’re going to do this again because there is a lot to talk about that we can break down here, so thank you so much for coming in.
Tonya Reiman: Thank you very much. I really appreciate the fact that you invited me. I hope you have a great day.
Traci Brown: Oh, you too, you too!